“Mom, Dad, are we rich?” One question can open up a much bigger conversation about what your family values, when to say no, and how to give kids opportunities to make choices and learn from them.
In this Halloween webinar from BFG Financial Advisors, Eric Brotman, CFP®, and Joy Slabaugh, CFP®, discuss how parents can talk openly about money, set limits, and help children develop a sense of worth that stands apart from family wealth. They share practical examples, from using three jars for an allowance to involving kids in giving and volunteering. Sara Lohse brings in an audience question about how to talk with adult children when parents and kids have different spending choices.
You’ll hear how to start a conversation about what “rich” means to your family, give kids more financial responsibility as they grow, and use your spending and giving to put family values into practice.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and “Are we rich?”
03:06 What makes an environment wealthy?
05:20 Financial stress and family relationships
07:25 When to say no and how to set limits
13:26 Consequences, resilience, and the value of effort
21:20 Preparing kids for inheritance and financial responsibility
22:08 The three-jar allowance approach
27:21 College costs, trade-offs, and student loans
32:00 Teaching generosity through giving and volunteering
37:57 Building a family money culture
42:44 Practical ways to put these ideas into action
46:05 Resources for families
47:49 Audience Q&A on spending and adult children
52:19 Closing takeaways
Start with one question at your next family dinner. What do we want our money to help us do?
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:23:12
Eric Brotman:
So. So for those of you who don’t know me, my name is Eric Brotman. I started BFG Financial Advisors in 2003. I’ve been in practice since 1994. This year I stepped down as the CEO of our firm and we have a new amazing CEO, and my role is now Chief Growth Officer and chairman of the board. And I get to do a lot of consulting and speaking and educating, and that’s what’s fun for me.
00:00:23:12 – 00:00:58:27
Eric Brotman:
So hopefully that will be apparent today. We’ll have a good time. So let’s let’s dive in because the first question is one of my favorites, actually, in the whole thing. Are we rich? Anybody ever hear that from your kids? Mom, dad, are we rich? That is a really difficult question to answer because on the one hand, everyone who won the birth lottery and is an American by birth and is in a position where we’re, we’re rarely thinking about, at least in our world, rarely thinking about the lowest levels of Maslow’s hierarchy.
00:00:58:29 – 00:01:21:15
Eric Brotman:
You know, rich means a lot of different things. And I think the term wealth is even more loaded than the term rich. to me, I think we are all rich. Joy, I don’t know how you feel about it. And rich means different things to different people. I you know, in the book I wrote, I quote the great philosopher Chris Rock who said, you know, that wealth is relative.
00:01:21:16 – 00:01:42:01
Eric Brotman:
He said, if Oprah woke up, or rather, if Bill Gates woke up tomorrow with Oprah Winfrey’s net worth, he’d want to jump out a window. And so that wealth is totally relative. I think rich is a rich is a hard question to answer. The short answer is, if we’re financially independent, then we are by definition rich.
00:01:42:03 – 00:02:07:04
Eric Brotman:
It means work is optional. But even before that, being in a position where we’re not worried about our next meal, we’re not worried about our debt. We’re not worried about the ability to go and take a vacation or get education for our kids. Rich is loaded, but I think the short answer is telling our kids, you know, I don’t think we’re rich, but we’re certainly doing well and we’re comfortable.
00:02:07:05 – 00:02:22:24
Eric Brotman:
I don’t think we want to use the word rich with our kids, because that starts to feel silver spoon to me. What do you think, Joy?
Joy Slabaugh:
I mean, I think of wealth as, actually, I’m curious what other folks think of as wealth, too. And if you want to chime in the chat, what does wealthy mean to you?
00:02:22:25 – 00:02:45:10
Joy Slabaugh:
That’d be really valuable, I think. And, you know, I think it’s really important to have conversations with kids about what does it mean to be rich. And, you know, I’ve spoken with people. I remember hearing someone who earned $17,000 a year told me he thought he was rich because he made more than his neighbors, and I also met someone who was worth $30 million, who thought they were poor because they had friends who had more than they did.
00:02:45:15 – 00:03:05:28
Joy Slabaugh:
So super relative. What is rich? Yeah, and I feel like when kids ask “Are we rich?” it can be a really great opportunity to expand on that and talk about what that means and what our values are. And then it can become a conversation of, are we rich in our values? Because that’s what really matters more than how much money in the bank, I think.
00:03:06:00 – 00:03:21:15
Eric Brotman:
Well, I think wealth is a lot more than money. And in fact, I think our next question is related to wealth. And are we in a wealthy environment? So why don’t you take a stab at this?
Joy Slabaugh:
Yeah. So again, anyone who wants to jump in and drop it in the chat, what does wealthy mean to you? I’d love to hear your thoughts.
00:03:21:17 – 00:03:47:00
Joy Slabaugh:
And as I think about this, to me, a wealthy environment is one where basic needs are met and children get to be part of and witness connective human relationships where repair is modeled for them. This is something that you cannot buy. Yes, you can hire therapists, but you can’t buy that. Like, this is something that we have to do with ourselves.
00:03:47:00 – 00:04:05:10
Joy Slabaugh:
We have to build these rich, connective relationships, give our kids access to them, let them see them. We have to engage in conflict with people we’re close to and repair through it, and let our kids see that this gives such an enormous leg up in life that I believe that truly is what wealth is. You can’t buy it.
00:04:05:13 – 00:04:30:29
Joy Slabaugh:
But when we are able to give our children this, it is a huge advantage, especially in this age where almost anything can be purchased. And, you know, it’s a high tech environment too. So the ability for our children to be able to be in human relationships with people they disagree with and they know how to work through that in a kind manner is an enormous gift.
00:04:30:29 – 00:04:49:27
Joy Slabaugh:
And to me, that’s really what wealth is. And so that’s what you’re talking about.
Eric Brotman:
Yeah. No, it’s funny, I definitely see wealth as more than money. I see it as a wealth of experience. I see it as a wealth of opportunity. I see it as a wealth of love, a wealth of character. I mean, there’s so many different types of ways to describe that.
00:04:49:29 – 00:05:13:29
Eric Brotman:
But ultimately, a wealthy environment doesn’t mean, you know, silver spoons. It doesn’t mean, you know, necessarily that you always have the club suite at the game or that you’re, you’re eating caviar every meal. I think that’s that’s what wealth looks like on YouTube or on TV or what have you. I don’t I don’t know that’s what wealthy is.
00:05:14:00 – 00:05:20:07
Eric Brotman:
So I agree with you. I think there’s a much better way to describe that for sure.
00:05:20:10 – 00:05:37:03
Joy Slabaugh:
Yeah, and wealth can be desperately lonely. I’ve seen that people who have so much money and are desperately lonely, and that’s a big reason that for me, wealth is so much more than money. It’s about the relationships. But I’ll let you take this one, Eric.
Eric Brotman:
Financial stress is one of the things that eats people alive, it really does.
00:05:37:04 – 00:05:55:12
Eric Brotman:
In fact, all types of stress, cortisol is not good for us, you know, within reason anyway. And what we find and we do a lot of financial wellness programs for companies and for non-profits, and we work with employees and what we tell the employer, a lot of the times is if your employees are worried about money, they’re not thinking about work.
00:05:55:15 – 00:06:12:16
Eric Brotman:
I mean, that’s when you’re, you know, money’s a little like oxygen. If you have enough, you don’t think about it. And if you don’t have enough, it’s all you can think about. And financial stress. Not knowing if you’ve got to rob Peter to pay Paul, not knowing how you’re making your next mortgage payment, not knowing if your car is going to be repossessed, not knowing if you can afford to educate your kids.
00:06:12:16 – 00:06:33:03
Eric Brotman:
There’s lots of different ways to do that. Financial stress can be relieved by money to an extent. And by the way, money doesn’t make you happy. And in fact, money creates some different kinds of stress, too. Suddenly you have stressors you didn’t have before as a result of money. So I’m not going to make that out to be a panacea.
00:06:33:03 – 00:07:06:10
Eric Brotman:
It’s not. And in fact, I think the emotional stress sometimes, whether it’s in a relationship, whether it’s in a marriage, whether it’s in a family, whether it’s in a work relationship or a personal friendship, sometimes money becomes a cause as much as certainly it’s not a balm for that type of stress. I mean, relationships, if just if you and a, I remember in high school, if you and a buddy were going to go catch a movie or something, and one of you could afford the movie tickets and one of you couldn’t, it created a small, like a micro stress moment where you had to figure that out.
00:07:06:12 – 00:07:25:06
Eric Brotman:
This doesn’t have to be lots of commas. This could be small things. But yes, financial stress. It is nice to have enough money that you don’t have to stress about how the bills are going to be paid and what you’re going to do if your washer and dryer blow up or you suddenly need four tires or I mean, life happens suddenly, the roof is leaking and nothing else matters.
00:07:25:06 – 00:07:52:03
Eric Brotman:
You have to fix it. And if you have to go to Visa to do that, it’s going to be stressful. But the emotional stress is not solved by money in my opinion. Thoughts?
Joy Slabaugh:
I would agree with you from that standpoint and I think it actually money can create emotional stress. I’ve certainly seen that.
Eric Brotman:
Oh yeah.
Joy Slabaugh:
And like a big piece of that, if you go to the next slide here is that there’s this question about when do you say no.
00:07:52:03 – 00:08:14:03
Joy Slabaugh:
And do you say no to your kids? This is a problem. That is a newer problem. Our parents didn’t have as much and certainly not our grandparents back in the 1960s. And 70s CEOs made about 20 times what the average worker made. Now it’s 350 times. So there’s just this exponentially more wealth that wealthy people have. It used to be that
00:08:14:03 – 00:08:33:06
Joy Slabaugh:
There were constraints, right? Yes. 20 times more than the average worker. Still a nice living. But that’s not the near infinite resources that many wealthy people have today. And so go ahead, Eric, you’re going to answer.
Eric Brotman:
I’m starting to laugh because I was the CEO here, and I never made 350 times what our what our folks did, though I wish I had I that would have been great.
00:08:33:06 – 00:08:52:21
Eric Brotman:
I could have shared that was not my reality. I think I need a new a new agent, a new contract.
Joy Slabaugh:
Well, amongst the publicly traded companies where the studies are published. So but you see, there were a lot more external constraints that forced parents to say no. They couldn’t say yes to everything. That’s not the case any longer.
00:08:52:23 – 00:09:15:21
Joy Slabaugh:
Then you add in that we are living in a time where even with inflation, the cost of goods have never been cheaper throughout human history. And then you also add in this consumerism culture where influencers are modeling whether it’s real or not. They’re modeling this idea of, oh, if I want it, I have it right. We don’t, you know, you don’t know that it’s actually on credit cards, but it looks like they if they want it, I have it.
00:09:15:22 – 00:09:39:00
Joy Slabaugh:
And so there are no there are far fewer external constraints which then leaves parents with, well, do I say yes to everything? And I want to advise, you know, do not say yes to everything. There’s it’s actually really valuable when you can create external constraints for your kids, they’re internal to you. Right. It’s your values. And then what are the limits that you’re going to create to live out these values.
00:09:39:00 – 00:10:03:12
Joy Slabaugh:
And that becomes external constraints for your children. It is really important that kids have limits. That is a very important part of their socioemotional development. And it’s why, if you’ve met sometimes folks who grow up very wealthy, sometimes there’s a lot of personality disorders in that crowd, and this is one of the reasons they don’t have limits that they have to work around.
00:10:03:18 – 00:10:28:12
Joy Slabaugh:
So this is what I think is really smart is get clear on your values, use that to create some limits, and then set those limits with your kids. And yeah, sometimes they’re mad at us. That’s part of it. And we’re going to talk more about that and how we tolerate that disappointment. But that is actually a gift for your kids when you can give them clear, loving limits that you enforce that helps them with their development.
00:10:28:15 – 00:10:46:29
Eric Brotman:
It’s so hard though. It’s so hard. Let’s face it. You know, growing up in a house where we were wearing hand-me-down clothes and getting our hair cut by our mom, was a different world than my daughter certainly has lived in. And, I want to say yes, I want to say yes all the time and be in a position to do that.
00:10:46:29 – 00:11:10:22
Eric Brotman:
And I recognize and you’re you’re absolutely right. It’s not good for us to say yes all the time. But it’s a weird dopamine hit for me as a dad to say yes to, you know, so I think some of it is you talk about emotional or personality issues or other things. Some of it’s on us as parents and I and I, certainly I love being the good cop.
00:11:10:22 – 00:11:27:16
Eric Brotman:
I love being able to be the one to say yes. And I recognize sometimes that’s not healthy. Saying no to my daughter is hard, and I and I do it. Don’t get me wrong, I do it. There are there are limits, but I don’t know that I do it strategically. It might be haphazard joy. I might not be great at this.
00:11:27:18 – 00:11:44:16
Joy Slabaugh:
I’m so glad that you named that Eric, because that is really true, that like what our kids are looking at us right? They’re the first ones to call us out on our hypocrisy. Right. And when they see something, we’re telling them one thing and we’re living something else. They’re going to see that and call it out.
00:11:44:17 – 00:12:09:18
Joy Slabaugh:
And you’re right, our ability to tolerate our own discomfort is required to do this, right. Because if we can’t tolerate, we can’t tolerate our own discomfort. How can we tolerate our kids discomfort? And so like if you go to the next slide. Here’s the consequences though. If we’re not willing to tolerate our discomfort and not willing to tolerate their discomfort, then that is how we get these little entitled monsters where there are no consequences.
00:12:09:18 – 00:12:32:28
Joy Slabaugh:
And this is a really unfortunate consequence of when parents are not able to set limits, is people grow up thinking there are no consequences and by and large, there aren’t. Right? There is a certain level of wealth in this country. If you reach that, there are very few consequences for you. And it doesn’t have to be that way, though. As parents, we can set limits.
00:12:33:00 – 00:12:54:19
Joy Slabaugh:
We can, and that actually helps our kids because there’s actually research that’s been done that the socioeconomic class with the highest rates of anxiety and depression among children is not the kids in poverty who don’t have enough to eat and thus can’t focus on studying in school the next day. It’s not the middle class kids who might be overcrowded public school classrooms.
00:12:54:19 – 00:13:26:00
Joy Slabaugh:
It’s the wealthy kids, in large part because when parents can’t tolerate their own discomfort, they use money to try to solve all this discomfort, which robs kids of limits, which also robs them of quality time, quality attuned attention from their parents, which is a really important part of development. So point you made, Eric, is like, if there’s nothing else anyone takes from this, from my perspective, is what you said, can we be can we tolerate our own discomfort so we can tolerate our kids discomfort?
00:13:26:00 – 00:13:46:22
Joy Slabaugh:
That makes a huge difference to how our kids evolve and grow and develop.
Eric Brotman:
You know, consequences are important. And I know we’re going to talk more about that as we go through today, but consequences are important. And I grew up in a house where, sometimes there were no consequences, sometimes there were. And that’s challenging.
00:13:46:22 – 00:14:13:24
Eric Brotman:
If you don’t know if there will be consequences or not. It’s sort of it’s a crapshoot, right? But then again, if you know what the consequences are and you choose to take an action that comes with that consequence, that’s also a decision being made. And adults make those decisions a lot. You know, if you know that you’re driving 90 on the highway, the consequence is you might get pulled over or obviously worse, you could hurt somebody, but you might get pulled over.
00:14:13:24 – 00:14:34:04
Eric Brotman:
That’s a consequence. And if you do get pulled over and you never get a ticket, then you don’t really learn from that. Not that, not that I want those tickets, Joy. Because of course, I’m a very safe driver at all times. But kids have to learn this stuff. They have to learn that there are consequences, you know, when there is and it’s little thing, it can be money, but it doesn’t have to be money.
00:14:34:04 – 00:14:51:12
Eric Brotman:
Sometimes it’s, you know, kid forgets their homework. And if you just drop what you’re doing and show up at school with their homework so they can turn it in. On the one hand, yes, that was helpful to them. On the other hand, sometimes it’s better, particularly as a at a young age, to say I left my homework at home, I’ll bring it in tomorrow.
00:14:51:12 – 00:15:13:06
Eric Brotman:
And the consequences there, like there’s a, there’s something to that I’m not suggesting. If they forget their lunch you make them go hungry. I am suggesting that you don’t try and abdicate all of the responsibility the way it does, and the responsibilities I desperately want. I want my own daughter to have responsibilities and to be able to make choices and to decide how she’s going to handle those things.
00:15:13:06 – 00:15:28:23
Eric Brotman:
And right now, yes, we have to say no. And we talked about that, but some of it is that she can’t do it all. I mean, how often do you do you and I, as adult humans say, yes, we can do everything and we take it on and we take it on and we take it on.
00:15:28:23 – 00:15:49:09
Eric Brotman:
And at some point we hit that capacity or that max or we hit burnout. I don’t want a teenage, you know, teenage kid burned out because they said yes to 46 things. I’d rather have them learn to prioritize and figure out the things that are, that the choices that are best for them with some guidance.
00:15:49:11 – 00:16:07:00
Eric Brotman:
But it’s not that easy. But kids aren’t going to learn if they if they haven’t had a couple of falls. You know, if you haven’t skinned your knee and you don’t know what that feels like, you, I think I think that’s bad for you. I think living in a bubble is not healthy.
Joy Slabaugh:
I would completely agree with you and if you would move to the next slide here.
00:16:07:00 – 00:16:25:25
Joy Slabaugh:
This is so true. We think about a butterfly trying to escape from a cocoon. It’s hard. If you rip the cocoon open for the butterfly, it will die, because that struggle is what pumps the blood into its wings so it can fly away. And if you do that for the butterfly, it’s now a dead butterfly. Now. Well, it’s not quite so extreme with kids.
00:16:25:27 – 00:16:48:27
Joy Slabaugh:
Like, there’s a lot of similarities here. And the point you’re making, Eric, about helping our kids doesn’t mean making it easy for them. In fact, that can actually make it harder for them because they don’t know how to be resilient. I think the college admissions scandal is a great example of, as parents, we can go overboard as snowplows, helicopter, whatever you want to call it, right?
00:16:48:29 – 00:17:15:02
Joy Slabaugh:
Our kids do need to struggle again, not struggle with, you know, not having food. But like basic needs are met and then challenges are really important. There’s also research that shows, there’s a lot of research that shows kids focus on whatever you give attention to. And when you focus on outcomes with kids, they actually have more anxiety and more depression, and they enjoy things less.
00:17:15:02 – 00:17:35:05
Joy Slabaugh:
Whether it’s schoolwork they don’t enjoy learning or whether it’s sports, they don’t enjoy sports. But when you focus on effort, that is something in their control. And then they enjoy it. They enjoy learning. They enjoy running around the soccer field, and that actually helps them with developing, because if they enjoy doing something, they’re going to keep doing it.
00:17:35:05 – 00:17:56:05
Joy Slabaugh:
They’re going to keep playing sports beyond ten years old, and they’re going to keep studying and trying. And it’s like, so when you focus on effort, hey, I see that was really hard and you did it anyway. I’m really proud of you. You’re going to get more effort from them. And let’s be honest, I think that matters so much more than you’ve got the A.
00:17:56:07 – 00:18:15:10
Joy Slabaugh:
But because we don’t just want outcomes, because what if they cheat to get the A and you don’t know that, right? So like this is where we focus on effort as opposed to outcome. That goes a long way to help our kids and this is how we can help them have opportunity, right without getting rid of effort where we help them feel safe and secure.
00:18:15:11 – 00:18:36:15
Joy Slabaugh:
Yet we still make sure they have responsibility. We support them, but we also have consequences. Exactly what you were talking about, Eric. And this is these are the things that enable our kids to feel like they have identity independent of wealth. And it also requires us to have identity independent of wealth, because our kids are noticing.
00:18:36:22 – 00:18:55:21
Joy Slabaugh:
What are we focusing on? Other people? How are we talking about the neighbors? Are we talking about we’re wondering how much money they make. We’re wondering if, you know, their car was more expensive than our car kids are noticing. And so this is where I invite us to consider what is my identity as it relates to wealth? Are they tied up together?
00:18:55:22 – 00:19:12:00
Joy Slabaugh:
Because if they are, kids are going to see that and they’re going to learn that from us.
Eric Brotman:
Well, you raise a bunch of really good points, Joy. First is that the whole keeping up with the Joneses thing, I don’t care what my neighbors are driving. In fact, most of the time they probably can’t afford the car they just bought, so I don’t care.
00:19:12:03 – 00:19:32:27
Eric Brotman:
And I try to model that. But you talked about the idea of effort versus outcome, and I’d like to add something that I think is a bridge. And you indicated it when you talked about cheating. I think it has to be effort and it has to be integrity. So to me, if and this is true as an employer, this is true with employees.
00:19:32:27 – 00:19:53:01
Eric Brotman:
This isn’t just kids. This is adults, too. And you know, when I was a young professional, I expected perfection from myself and I expected perfection from everyone around me. And as a result, I was, A, overly demanding and, B, often very disappointed, you know, and nobody wants to feel like they disappointed you one way or the other.
00:19:53:01 – 00:20:15:10
Eric Brotman:
Whether it’s your kid or a coworker or a friend or a teammate or whatever. So to me, now it’s about expecting perfect effort and having perfect integrity, doing the right thing at all times, and trying your best. Outcomes, we can’t predict and they’re not perfect. And you know, sometimes the games you lose are important. I saw a speaker, Sarah Wells, two weeks ago.
00:20:15:10 – 00:20:37:18
Eric Brotman:
She’s a public speaker. She was a silver medalist and an Olympian, a 400-meter hurdler. Amazing woman. And the lessons that she learned from some of the losses and the story she tells about those losses are so impactful and so incredible and so much more powerful than if she was talking about, look at all the medals I won.
00:20:37:21 – 00:21:00:29
Eric Brotman:
I mean, truly, learning. Not that you want to learn to lose all the time, but handling disappointment with grace and not quitting and not giving up and not and being resilient kids especially. They have to learn to be resilient. If the first time they face adversity, they roll up in a ball and quit, they are not going to thrive.
00:21:01:01 – 00:21:20:00
Eric Brotman:
And that’s true regardless of your wealth level. But at the at the higher end, it means that they’re likely to not launch. You know, we all talk about those kids, the boomerang kids, the ones who come back and play Xbox on their mom and dad’s couch until they’re 35. That’s not a great thing, but there definitely is something to that.
00:21:20:00 – 00:21:47:07
Eric Brotman:
So let’s talk about what we can teach our kids. And inheritance is something that can ruin young people, not even young people. If you if you’re planning to inherit money and you’re in your 50s or 60s and then it doesn’t come and you’ve been living like it was there, you’ve got a serious problem. And if knowing that your parents or grandparents are wealthy people means you don’t have to apply yourself, you don’t have to work hard.
00:21:47:07 – 00:22:08:17
Eric Brotman:
You don’t have to make a career or make a life for yourself because you can be. And I use the Billy Madison reference, the Adam Sandler movie. But if you can sit around the pool all day and not worry about it, you’re unlikely to not only thrive, but to do anything of import. So, for kids, I think it’s really important that they know how to handle this before it comes.
00:22:08:18 – 00:22:30:23
Eric Brotman:
And at the smallest level, it means it means starting with even whether it’s an allowance or an internship or a simple job or something where your effort is rewarded by some form of remuneration. I think that’s important. You know, I did the three jars with my daughter when she was little and she wanted an allowance, and we had age appropriate things, and then we had three jars.
00:22:30:23 – 00:22:49:17
Eric Brotman:
We had we had fun, we had long term and we had charity. And every week I gave her five $1 bills as an allowance. And she had to put a dollar into charity and a dollar in the long term, and she could do anything she wanted with the other three. And for the first couple of months, those three were always fun.
00:22:49:19 – 00:23:19:27
Eric Brotman:
But then I noticed a shift. I noticed that once the fun jar was mostly full, she started putting more than the $1 into the long term and into the charity. She got more generous with herself as a saver and with philanthropy, even as like a seven year old, that was an amazing thing to witness. And so this idea of earning, of spending, of saving, of investing, you know, my daughter has a bank statement.
00:23:19:27 – 00:23:40:18
Eric Brotman:
And when she gets it and she sees, excuse me, she sees a penny of interest. That’s, it’s easy to say, well, why am I doing this? Why is this money in the bank if it’s earning nothing? She’s right. First of all, although obviously you need an emergency fund. But then the other piece of that is that’s where you can get into investing.
00:23:40:18 – 00:24:02:01
Eric Brotman:
And is there a way to do better than getting a penny every month on your on your bank statement? So that’s a big deal. And then the giving piece, having kids make gifts, ideally with some of the money they’ve earned, whether it’s from mowing a lawn or whether it’s from allowance or whatever. Finding something age appropriate for them.
00:24:02:01 – 00:24:19:28
Eric Brotman:
The first time I did that with her, she gave to two charities. One was around kids and one was around animals, and they were both very appropriate for her age. And I matched the gifts in the same way that I matched the deposit to her savings account. And these became lessons that I hope, I hope have stayed with her.
00:24:20:00 – 00:24:49:05
Eric Brotman:
But my bigger concern now, Joy, and maybe you can talk about this a little bit, is if I were to drop dead tomorrow, what I’m leaving behind is enough to ruin somebody. And I and I mean that not because I don’t think she’s bright. Not because I don’t think she’s capable. Not because I don’t think she’s a great human, but because she lacks the tools, the relationships, the skills, and the preparedness.
00:24:49:05 – 00:25:05:29
Eric Brotman:
And I think she’d be a target in a lot of ways. So that’s why we get into trust planning. We get into other kinds of strategies to protect our kids, essentially from themselves and from predators and creditors. Do you want to speak a little bit about that? Because I know you’ve got some experience with that.
Joy Slabaugh:
Yeah. So maybe a couple of things I’ll mention.
00:25:06:00 – 00:25:27:13
Joy Slabaugh:
One is like for the first thing, few things on the slide. Earning, spending, saving, and investing. Another a tool that’s really helpful. Vanguard has an app called My Home Economy. It’s a really easy way. It’s age appropriate from like kindergarten all the way through high school to help kids learn these skills in age-appropriate ways. And that gives a foundation, because then the point that you’re talking about Eric.
00:25:27:15 – 00:25:56:19
Joy Slabaugh:
Eric is about really like stewardship. How are you responsible with this? And this is where it can be in, like healthy money family environments, there can be a rite of passage where at a certain age, children, you take the child aside and it’s probably in their teen years, possibly 16, where you set some ground rules and it’s like, look, this is I’m going to trust you with some knowledge, and I need to trust that you’re going to keep this in the family.
00:25:56:19 – 00:26:13:10
Joy Slabaugh:
This is something we talk about in the family. We don’t talk about it and we talk about it with our trusted money people. We don’t talk about it beyond that. And you liken it to medical things. There are some things you talk about with your doctor, you don’t talk about with the neighbors. That’s okay. These are, these are, you know, these are we talk about with our money people.
00:26:13:12 – 00:26:37:25
Joy Slabaugh:
And so you set some parameters around that and then you start to reveal age-appropriate some information. And you also give them some responsibility. And so for example it could be that you reveal we’ve been saving for college for you. And you’re going to have enough money to go to college and you’re going to get to choose, do you want to go to an expensive college and you use all of it.
00:26:37:28 – 00:26:57:12
Joy Slabaugh:
You want to go to a less expensive college, and you can save something for grad school or for your kids, for example. You can you can start to give these like smaller trade off decisions. And then maybe when they’re 18 or 19, you have another level up where you give them more information and more responsibility. And really smart families will have a staggered tiered approach.
00:26:57:19 – 00:27:21:01
Joy Slabaugh:
So by the time the kids prefrontal cortex is fully developed, which is around 25 or 26, then they have skills to be able to handle even more knowledge and more responsibility. And they’re starting to become a collaborator with you in how you manage this and what you do with it. Because this is the point. You’re mentioning, Eric, more wealth than one person needs.
00:27:21:03 – 00:27:43:04
Joy Slabaugh:
And so how do we think about it collaboratively and what are our goals for it instead of just like, what are my goals that I want you to do?
Eric Brotman:
Does it disturb you as much as it disturbs me that at 18, young people can make half-million-dollar student loan decisions, they can make credit card decisions that create enough rope to hang themselves long term.
00:27:43:06 – 00:28:00:27
Eric Brotman:
They can make all these giant decisions, but they’re not old enough to have a beer. Does that sound strange at all to you that kids are being asked sometimes with no guidance? It’s helpful if we can guide them. I love your idea of is it a more expensive or less expensive school, and how do you use the money that’s been saved?
00:28:00:27 – 00:28:27:07
Eric Brotman:
And I think that’s wonderful. In some cases there’s no money saved or there’s no opportunity where there’s very little opportunity in any way. You shake it. It’s going to be a student loan. Well, coming out of school with a $20,000 student loan is different than coming out with a $200,000 student loan. It’s a hole that is really hard to dig out of, and these kids are making that decision thinking that college, in and of itself is an investment that’s going to pay for itself in droves.
00:28:27:10 – 00:28:48:16
Eric Brotman:
And there are plenty of degrees where there is no ROI for that. And I know we could be squarely off topic here, but does it bother you at all that we allow young people and I know they’re adults by definition, but we allow them to make decisions that could have lifelong repercussions, often with little or no guidance, because their parents don’t understand it.
00:28:48:16 – 00:29:09:22
Eric Brotman:
Their schools can’t help a whole lot with it, and they’re being preyed upon. I think a lot of times by, not just the Joneses, but by various financial institutions and government, language and other things that make it sound like everyone has to do this and you just have to borrow a ton of money.
Joy Slabaugh:
Yeah. I think what you’re talking about to me really ties into this idea of stewardship.
00:29:09:22 – 00:29:31:16
Joy Slabaugh:
And are we preparing young people to be stewards. There is a tool, a pretty cool tool. I think Vanguard has one. I think there’s another company that has one, too. I forget which one it is, where it is an ROI calculator where you can actually pick your degree, you put in the cost and you pick which school and you look in what is the ROI likely to be?
00:29:31:19 – 00:29:55:24
Joy Slabaugh:
Let’s be honest, some schools, like Carnegie Mellon, a computer science degree from Carnegie Mellon, goes farther than a computer science degree from, Indiana.
Eric Brotman:
Let’s go with x, y, z. Let’s not throw anybody under a bus. Come on Joy okay.
Joy Slabaugh:
You’re right, you’re right.
Eric Brotman:
Those poor Hoosiers. Why would you do that to them? But I hear you, right? some school, right?
00:29:55:24 – 00:30:15:13
Joy Slabaugh:
You’re getting a different education. And so it is very hard to compare these things apples to apples. So there are some tools out there that can help weigh all these factors so that as you’re making a decision, do I want to get an English literature degree from a school that’s going to cost $500,000 for all four years?
Eric Brotman:
Yeah.
00:30:15:13 – 00:30:33:23
Joy Slabaugh:
What’s the ROI on that? Probably not great. I think we know that. Right. But spending $500,000 to get a degree where you’re learning AI programming, for example, you probably are going to actually net positive over the lifetime of your career on an investment like that.
Eric Brotman:
Also ways to get it cheaper still.
Joy Slabaugh:
But still I think there are.
00:30:33:25 – 00:30:54:23
Joy Slabaugh:
Yes, it is a problem. We are not equipping kids well to make this to weigh these decisions. There are a few tools that are coming out that we can use to help them with this and make it a bit more equal comparison, because I do think there is some preying that happens.
Eric Brotman:
Yes. So it’s interesting because ROI is not the only reason to go to school.
00:30:54:28 – 00:31:15:18
Eric Brotman:
It is certainly an investment. But there’s there’s other things you’re also talking and don’t know it necessarily, but you’re talking to an English Lit major right now. You know, I did study late 18th century romantic poetry in school. This is a true story, and it has paid off in droves because I sometimes do investment reports in iambic pentameter.
00:31:15:18 – 00:31:42:18
Eric Brotman:
Is that weird? See, So you never know where you might use that. But I love that. But it’s true. The type of degree it’s hard to justify spending $100,000 a year for an early education degree that’s going to pay you a fraction of that, and that you’ll never catch up unless there are programs designed to either forgive or allow employers or school districts others, to pay off that student loan in favor of working in that environment.
00:31:42:18 – 00:31:59:29
Eric Brotman:
And so I know we’re again, we’re off topic a little bit, but trying to jam so much into this, you know, this spooky, scary thing. Let’s let’s go to the next slide, which, by the way, I’m glad doesn’t have a spider on it because I don’t like spiders. This doesn’t scare me nearly as much as the spiders.
00:32:00:01 – 00:32:30:07
Eric Brotman:
I do think that giving money away matters. I think it matters a lot. And to understand that the altruistic nature of that giving, without the expectation of receiving something back other than other than the joy of doing something nice. We’re making a difference. To me, that’s an incredibly valuable thing. You know, the value of a dollar is not the same to each human.
00:32:30:10 – 00:32:49:22
Eric Brotman:
You know, there are people right now who don’t know where their next meal is coming from. And if they saw a $5 bill on the street, it could change their day. You might not bend over and pick it up. And I’m not throwing shade at you. I just realized that it’s a different it’s a different situation. And so I think when you can give and make a difference for folks, I think it’s an incredibly valuable skill.
00:32:49:24 – 00:33:15:27
Eric Brotman:
And a valuable thing to teach. Philanthropy matters. And it’s more than just slapping your name on a building, you know, giving in such a way that you can change lives, whether it’s scholarship, whether it’s health care, whether it’s whatever you’re passionate about. To me, that makes sense. And getting kids involved in helping others, particularly those less fortunate, becomes a very important, hopefully lifelong learning, don’t you think?
00:33:15:29 – 00:33:37:11
Joy Slabaugh:
Absolutely. This is back to what we’ve sort of a theme we’re talking about is we model for our kids. And so what they see us doing, they’re going to learn. And there is, I think, a really rich opportunity with giving, too that leads really naturally to conversations about values and about how we live out our values.
00:33:37:13 – 00:34:00:13
Joy Slabaugh:
And your kids will call you on your own hypocrisy. They will. That’s a gift, right? If we can like, hear that and like can actually help us be even more true to our values when we engage in discussions like that, which can really help further build this money culture in the family.
Eric Brotman:
So let’s talk about giving a little further, because, it’s not just writing a check.
00:34:00:16 – 00:34:18:25
Eric Brotman:
There’s a lot of different ways to give. You can give time, you can give talent, you can give education, you can give energy. But some of it is also financial. And I told you that I had my daughter research a couple of things and find some things online and decide the causes that she wanted. In this case, the budget was what she had set aside.
00:34:18:25 – 00:34:41:28
Eric Brotman:
But I think families who have donor-advised funds, families who have either foundations at the very high end or just simple DAF, can have conversations around philanthropy and parents who want to leave their kids in a, in a, in a, I think a very important thing that we can give our kids is the gift of influence.
00:34:42:00 – 00:35:01:04
Eric Brotman:
And I know that sounds like the student loan or not, the student loan, the admissions scandal waiting to happen. I’m not suggesting that there’s interference, but influence. Meaning if we leave behind a fund that the kids have to for life, they have to give money to charity every year, and they have the ability to decide on what that’s going to be.
00:35:01:05 – 00:35:28:12
Eric Brotman:
It’s going to create an enormous opportunity for them not only to make a difference, but to meet people who are also making a difference, to meet other really good humans. And I think that kind of influence is priceless. I love the idea of volunteering together. I can tell you I had an interesting experience as part of Leadership Maryland, where instead of serving at a soup kitchen, we stood in line and we dined at one.
00:35:28:15 – 00:35:56:22
Eric Brotman:
It was a completely different experience. And of course, we were also making donations and things. But on that particular day, we were just one of the people who was there for lunch and talking to people who were there, who were going through it. And, you know, I think sometimes when you put on the polo shirt and you’re the one serving the food, it can be it can be self-serving in the strangest way, even though you’re doing something nice if you don’t have that integrity baked into it.
00:35:56:24 – 00:36:18:10
Eric Brotman:
But it was an incredible experience to not be the guy in the polo who’s going, here you go. And instead to just be talking to people and hearing stories and it was a very impactful moment. So I do like the idea of letting kids be involved in not only the giving but the volunteering. You know, as a company, we try to do a lot of that here.
00:36:18:10 – 00:36:42:01
Eric Brotman:
We try to get everybody excited about doing some philanthropy. But as a family and with kids at almost any age, you can get them excited to volunteer at almost anything, I think. What are your what are your go to for teaching that lesson?
Joy Slabaugh:
Yeah, I think that a comment somebody put in the chat, which I think a really good point about teaching that charity is more than just the monetary gift.
00:36:42:03 – 00:37:00:17
Joy Slabaugh:
It’s also about the time, it’s about the impact. And that’s really to the point the person put in the chat. That really helps people understand why the giving is important. I think about an experience I had with my bonus daughter. We would go volunteer every summer. It was a family volunteer camp where it would be with other families.
00:37:00:17 – 00:37:22:16
Joy Slabaugh:
We’d show up to a community and we’d be volunteering and great opportunity. And there was this there’s one thing we were volunteering. We were like digging some holes for some folks. They could plant some things. And there was a dad who was also volunteering, who was a CEO, and he kind of missed the point. And he was like, why are we digging holes?
00:37:22:16 – 00:37:39:10
Joy Slabaugh:
I can just rent a backhoe and we can have this done in half a morning, which he did. He rented a backhoe. The holes were dug in half a morning and that was it. Right now it was a week’s worth of work and it was a yes. He demonstrated efficiency, and we learned that there’s more efficient ways to do things.
00:37:39:12 – 00:37:57:24
Joy Slabaugh:
But it also kind of missed the point that the whole point here is we’re giving our time and we’re giving our effort and we’re doing it together. And that we are investing in this person. So I feel like that’s I feel like when we can set aside that maybe the outcomes we value in business are different here, right?
00:37:57:25 – 00:38:19:13
Joy Slabaugh:
That this is about showing our kids we put our time and attention to the things that matter, not just our money, yes, our money, but also our time and attention, too. And that’s what really helps the lesson sink in. So how do we create this culture? Great question. The first thing to realize is that we have a money culture, whether we realize it or not.
00:38:19:19 – 00:38:37:00
Joy Slabaugh:
You have one, I have one. We may or may not be aware of it, but one exists. And so the first piece is to become aware of what is currently the culture. And one, you know, some questions you can ask yourself and explore are things like what does money mean to me? And when I think about not having any money.
00:38:37:03 – 00:39:02:12
Joy Slabaugh:
What am I afraid will happen? And what do I what do I hope money will do for me? And then also where do I spend my money? Like that is a really big indicator of what your values are. So these are some things that give you a sense of the culture that you have. And then you can I think ideally we build our culture around our values.
00:39:02:15 – 00:39:22:18
Joy Slabaugh:
And so this is where we can engage in conversation with our family, with our kids. If you have an extended family, what are our values and align on the 3 to 5 values that we think are most important to us, maybe it’s generosity, maybe it’s resilience, maybe it’s security. It could be any number of things. But like what are these values?
00:39:22:18 – 00:39:42:15
Joy Slabaugh:
What do they mean to you? And then we start talking about, okay, how do we put our money to work for our values and look at where our money is and where it goes and which values it supports. And we may find we have money going places that is not at all aligned with our values. Okay, great. That then leads to a culture of what would be aligned with our values.
00:39:42:18 – 00:40:03:25
Joy Slabaugh:
We may also find that the ways that we are using our money to bring our values to life, and that can feel really good, and also really reinforce to our kids that this is the point of money. The point of money is to bring our values to life and create connective experiences with other humans, which we’re doing when we have these conversations, when we’re volunteering.
00:40:03:28 – 00:40:22:22
Joy Slabaugh:
So these are like the practical things that I think of how we can build a money culture. Eric, curious if you have anything you’d add to that?
Eric Brotman:
Well, you hit the nail on the head when you talked about experience. To me, to me, money. While it can’t buy happiness, it can be used to acquire a bunch of stuff.
00:40:22:24 – 00:40:49:17
Eric Brotman:
And I hate stuff. I don’t like this idea of consumerism, of buying all the things I do. On the other hand, really like experiences, you know? And so if I try to model the value of I would rather spend money on a family vacation, on doing things together, on having an experience, whether it’s a roller coaster or a national park, whatever people are into, I think the experiences matter.
00:40:49:18 – 00:41:14:00
Eric Brotman:
I think going places together, doing things together, being involved together matters so much more than having stuff. So, you know, even now, even now, you know, we think about how we’ve how we’ve changed the way Christmas morning works. You know, Christmas morning can be a gift-a-palooza. And as far as I’m concerned, most of that stuff just winds up in a in a corner somewhere.
00:41:14:01 – 00:41:33:22
Eric Brotman:
Like it’s just stuff. So I would much rather I would much rather have a card under the, under the tree that’s got a gift in it. That is a that are tickets to a show or a trip to someplace that somebody wants to go or a favorite restaurant or a favorite. Whatever it is, it doesn’t have to be.
00:41:33:24 – 00:41:54:11
Eric Brotman:
It doesn’t have to be expensive. But you’re thinking about what this person would really value and what they’d want to do and what you can do together. Gifts to me, joy, when you’re shopping for me for Christmas this year, just I’m giving you some pointers. I don’t need stuff. I don’t need anything to unwrap. I just want experiences so you can get me some kind of experience.
00:41:54:13 – 00:42:17:19
Eric Brotman:
The Joy Slabaugh experience. That’s all I’m looking for Christmas.
Joy Slabaugh:
Okay. You know, this piece about experience I think is really important. And I think that it’s a connective experience. Right. If we’re, we’re, we’re in the national parks together and we’re all on our phones like okay how connective is this. Right. So I feel like this is like the there’s another level now that we need to take.
00:42:17:21 – 00:42:44:06
Joy Slabaugh:
Now that we all have computers in our hands, on our wrists, in our ears, in our glasses. Right. Like there.
Eric Brotman:
Oh yeah.
Joy Slabaugh:
All this wearable tech can be really cool and can also get in the way of the connective piece of experience. And this is again, back to what I was saying, the beginning. What is wealth? I think it’s like giving our kids the experience of feeling a connective human experience, which is time and attention and attunement.
00:42:44:09 – 00:42:59:29
Joy Slabaugh:
So let’s talk about specifically some things you can you can do.
Eric Brotman:
Yeah, we’re we’re we’re nearing the end. So first I just want to remind everybody if you have questions please post them. We’ve seen some a couple of a little bit of chatter in the in the chat box, which is great. If there’s if there’s any questions we’d be happy to answer.
00:43:00:03 – 00:43:24:28
Eric Brotman:
I love this because this feels like the laundry list of best practices. So why don’t you take a stab at this first?
Joy Slabaugh:
Yeah. So this is reinforcing a lot of the stuff we’ve already talked about, which is let’s talk openly about money. Let’s talk openly about our discomfort, about the big feelings we have about discomfort. And yeah, we need to say no sometimes and have clear limits for our kids and then be with them in that discomfort.
00:43:24:29 – 00:43:43:28
Joy Slabaugh:
Emotions are like waves. They come and they go. Be with them through that and let them know that you love them even when they’re angry, even when they’re happy. Whatever, you love them, you’re here with them in it. Expecting contribution is a piece of it, right? We want our children to feel a stake in what is happening, and there’s little ways we can do that.
00:43:43:28 – 00:44:07:03
Joy Slabaugh:
There’s big ways we can do that. When we talked about that and then the skills piece is around noticing what is happening inside of us and noticing our own discomfort and being with our own discomfort. We’re modeling that is how they learn skills. That is like a huge piece of family therapy. Is that sentence I just gave you right there, noticing what’s happening inside of us, our discomfort and being with that.
00:44:07:03 – 00:44:25:19
Joy Slabaugh:
And our kids see that, and that’s how they learn. And then this piece of practicing generosity in small ways, in big ways, all of this adds up and is what helps the child realize I have worth, regardless of how much money my parents do or don’t have, regardless of how much money I do or not do or do not have.
00:44:25:22 – 00:44:46:23
Joy Slabaugh:
Yeah, and I’ll also offer that this sometimes requires us to explore our own worth too, right, and noticing when our worth is tied up in our wealth. And kids are great mirrors. They point out the really uncomfortable things about us. And so if we can be open to that, we’re also modeling the ability to hear feedback and be with it and repair.
00:44:46:25 – 00:45:07:01
Eric Brotman:
So I love this list. In the interest of time, let’s jump ahead to the next slide. Because this really is this is everyone’s challenge. You know, everyone’s challenge is to raise kids whose worth and wealth are not the same. You just said it in the last slide. And I think that’s what this means. The wealth doesn’t define them.
00:45:07:04 – 00:45:28:10
Eric Brotman:
You know that to me, is a very sad existence. If wealth defines you, we don’t have to raise kids in the dark. We don’t have to make it seem like, oh, gosh, we’re impoverished and we’re pretending to be impoverished so that they get some life lessons. I think it’s okay to say, you know, your folks have worked their tails off and have been very successful.
00:45:28:10 – 00:45:45:01
Eric Brotman:
And we want to share that with you, but also with the world. I think that’s a win. And I think that’s a great way to raise kids. And, you know, I don’t none of us know exactly what’s going to happen naturally, when our kids get older and but even when your kids are 50, they’re still your kids.
00:45:45:01 – 00:46:05:03
Eric Brotman:
My mom still suggests that I take a raincoat when it’s when it’s wet out. Like, you know, I’ve got this, mom, I really do anything to add to this before we share some resources folks can use and maybe answer a question or two.
Joy Slabaugh:
I know I think this I think we’ve really nailed it here, Eric.
Eric Brotman:
All right. Well, let’s let’s go to some resources.
00:46:05:03 – 00:46:27:28
Eric Brotman:
Take out your phones. I know normally presenters don’t want you to have your phone. It means you’re not paying attention. But now take out your phone. Use this QR code. BFG University has a ton of information that is free. Webinars, podcasts, courses, things you can you can use to teach your kids about money. There’s a there’s a financial literacy course that’s great for kids.
00:46:27:28 – 00:46:54:22
Eric Brotman:
It’s eight modules. They’re they’re very simple. It’s budgeting and simple lessons for kids to learn about money and not just kids, frankly, anybody who wants a refresher, it’s great content. So go ahead and scan that. Find our free resources. And three, two, one let’s shift over because Joy you’ve got some great stuff for folks to.
Joy Slabaugh:
Yeah. So if you want to have a conversation about challenges that you’re experiencing around this, I’d be happy to chat.
00:46:54:23 – 00:47:11:12
Joy Slabaugh:
You can just take you to my website, you can book an intro call with me, and we can have a conversation about what your needs are and if I can help. If I can, great. If I can’t, I have a lot of resources other folks I can direct you to. I’m really passionate about helping people solve these problems that money creates.
00:47:11:15 – 00:47:32:09
Joy Slabaugh:
This is really my life’s work now. I really love doing this. So, if there are ways that I could support you, I’d love to connect with you and chat and see how I can. How I can help.
Eric Brotman:
Well, first of all, thank you for sharing your wisdom with us today, because it really is different than the folks we normally talk to who are financial people, but aren’t necessarily looking at it in the behavioral way that you do.
00:47:32:12 – 00:47:49:01
Eric Brotman:
Let’s go to the last slide so we can make all of the lawyers happy. Ready? One, two three happy lawyers. There you are. And if we can go back to the slide with our photos and our email addresses on it, that would be terrific. Because that way anybody who wants to send us a message can do so. So let’s let’s get some questions.
00:47:49:01 – 00:48:14:18
Sara Lohse:
There’s a couple of things in the in the box. It says here let’s see how to nicely instruct them. Just because Mom and dad have it or can do it does not necessarily mean they can.
Eric Brotman:
That’s interesting because, you know, you talk about modeling and you talk about hypocrisy. If I tell my kid, no, you can’t get concert tickets, and then I go buy concert tickets for myself, we have to be able to explain that, not that they’re necessarily due an explanation other than I worked hard.
00:48:14:18 – 00:48:31:27
Eric Brotman:
I’m going to the concert. How do you how do you address that? From a from a therapy lens or a behavioral lens? Joy. When it’s when it’s a “thou shalt not” or a it’s fine for me, but not for thee.
Joy Slabaugh:
Yeah. Well, I think also this person is sharing their kids are adults now and they’re adults.
00:48:31:28 – 00:49:01:10
Joy Slabaugh:
Children are like, hey, you guys are doing this. I feel like they deserve it. And this is where honestly, sometimes we need to be okay with conversations being uncomfortable. And so what I would encourage is like, to have a conversation with kids and what is it like for them when they see mom and dad, see you going on a trip and they’re not, what are the feelings that come up for them and hear them out. Hear what those feelings are.
00:49:01:13 – 00:49:20:21
Joy Slabaugh:
And don’t try to fix it. Don’t try to change it just like it just is. They feel this way. Maybe they feel jealous. Maybe they feel like failures. Who knows, you could feel any number of things. And that’s creating a connective human experience with them. You’re not trying to change them, just accepting that this is how they feel.
00:49:20:23 – 00:49:46:29
Joy Slabaugh:
And that’s, also what everyone longs to be is seen, heard, accepted exactly as they are. And so there’s an opportunity with that discord between you to create a conversation that leads to a connective experience with them.
Eric Brotman:
I can tell you that at moments when my daughter was young and I would tease, because that’s just one of the that’s one of my love languages being playful.
00:49:47:01 – 00:50:03:24
Eric Brotman:
But at the end of the day, I would tease and be like, you know, listen, I’m an adult person. I could do whatever I want. And that’s not entirely necessarily accurate. But it does feel that way. And this whole idea that I can have my dessert first. You know why? Because I’m an adult. I can do whatever I want.
00:50:03:29 – 00:50:31:06
Eric Brotman:
That’s modeling terrible behavior. Naturally. But still, do you think there’s. Do you think there’s a lesson to be learned, even in something that’s silly to say? Hey, listen, you’re you’re making decisions now for yourself at a level that is appropriate for you. And I’m making decisions for you that is at the next level, whatever that is, whether it’s yes, you can, you can choose what to study in college, but we’re going to talk about how you finance it.
00:50:31:07 – 00:50:50:04
Eric Brotman:
I mean, are there things that you think are, that can be different in terms of the way we treat ourselves versus our kids?
Joy Slabaugh:
Yeah, absolutely. I think there’s a couple of things here. One is about choice from a young age. I do think it’s important to teach children that sometimes we have choice. Sometimes we don’t have choice.
00:50:50:04 – 00:51:09:03
Joy Slabaugh:
Right. Like there are some things that we do that we don’t really have a choice about, like paying taxes. Well, I guess technically we have a choice.
Eric Brotman:
Yeah, we always have. There’s consequences.
Joy Slabaugh:
There’s consequences. That’s the point. Yeah. But there we have. We have choice. Some things we don’t have choice around. Maybe breathing air. That’s when we don’t really have.
00:51:09:04 – 00:51:38:15
Joy Slabaugh:
Well yeah. You kind of can’t help anyways. I’m going down a rabbit hole. My point here is that teaching children that they have choice. Sometimes as you age, you get more choice. You also get more responsibility. And that my role as a parent is to protect you from choices that are too big for you, because you can’t handle the responsibility that comes with it, and that there will be a difference, and that daily we’re trying to grow so that you can take on more responsibility and have more choice.
00:51:38:21 – 00:52:01:24
Joy Slabaugh:
So I think it’s entirely appropriate to be honest about like, no, you don’t actually get to do and make every choice and do everything because you’re not ready for that. You’re not ready for that responsibility. And that’s coming from a place of love and care and protecting you. But the flip side is also true that as parents, we do need to open up and give them choice and responsibility in age appropriate ways.
00:52:01:29 – 00:52:19:22
Joy Slabaugh:
Otherwise we’re like, we’re ripping the cocoon for the butterfly, and they don’t get to struggle and grow and they’re just going to shrivel up and die.
Eric Brotman:
I learned more about butterflies this morning than I expected to, so I appreciate that. Well, how about some closing remarks? I’ll give mine and you can close. And then we’ll thank everybody for coming.
00:52:19:24 – 00:52:39:22
Eric Brotman:
I think if there were to be one takeaway, one action item, one homework item from today, it would be to have a family conversation, to have a family conversation. And that can be doing it on your own. Or it could be doing it with someone like me or a member of our team there to help facilitate the money conversation.
00:52:39:25 – 00:52:58:10
Eric Brotman:
It could be with someone like Joy there to facilitate some of the emotion behind that and some of the, some of the conflict that can be created or other things. But having a conversation with your family about money and values and what’s important, you don’t have to quantify this. You don’t have to tell your kids how much you’re worth.
00:52:58:10 – 00:53:21:18
Eric Brotman:
That’s not the point. The point is to say that this is the these are the values that hard work and integrity and generosity, and these are the things, whatever’s appropriate for you. I think that family conversation is important. We’ve actually done them with dozens of families, if not hundreds of families, and would be happy to facilitate that kind of conversation.
00:53:21:21 – 00:53:48:19
Eric Brotman:
So that would be my takeaway is this if money is taboo, let’s let’s fix that because that you’re raising kids that need to understand it, they need to have some perspective on it. And you can provide that in a unique way.
Joy Slabaugh:
Love that, Eric. And what I would just add then, from the other side of that lens is I would just invite you to notice where does money bring up discomfort for you?
00:53:48:21 – 00:54:10:15
Joy Slabaugh:
Maybe it’s about money, maybe it’s about money in relationships with others. But just to notice that and then just see if you can just be with that and be with that discomfort. Right. Big theme from this conversation. Can we tolerate discomfort? And just to notice the places where money brings discomfort, especially in relationships. And be with that and just the noticing in and of itself, things start to change just in the noticing.
00:54:10:17 – 00:54:33:11
Eric Brotman:
Oh well, that’s making me uncomfortable. So thank you for that.
Joy Slabaugh:
You’re welcome. Eric, I wish you an incredible happy Halloween. Because we are not raising monsters here, and this is the perfect time for this.
Eric Brotman:
Joy, thanks for doing this. I you know, you bring such an important lens to this discussion, and you’ve you’ve clearly found not only the niche for yourself professionally, but a calling personally.
00:54:33:11 – 00:54:49:05
Eric Brotman:
And I and I’m so happy that we’re connected. And that you can be a resource for us, for clients, for friends and for anybody who happens to be watching. So thank you for being here.
Joy Slabaugh:
Thanks for having me, Eric. Thanks to all of you who joined. Delight to be with you today.
Eric Brotman:
Thanks again everyone.